"I AM VERY, VERY, VERY UPSET"

By Scott MacLeod, Amany Radwan

The tunnel crisis in Jerusalem incensed Egyptians, despite President Hosni Mubarak's previous admonitions for patience with Benjamin Netanyahu. Mubarak refused to attend the summit in Washington two weeks ago, saying it would be fruitless. Other Arab leaders, including Jordan's King Hussein, who attended the summit, have since expressed their frustration with Israel. Last week, at a retreat on the Suez Canal, Egypt's leader spoke of disappointments and dangers with TIME Middle East correspondent Scott MacLeod and reporter Amany Radwan.

TIME: After a recent interview with you, an Israeli journalist said he discerned a "contained rage" in your disappointment with Netanyahu.

Mubarak: I am very, very, very upset. I am a man of peace. I would like to have peace with the Israelis. Egypt is the country that opened the door of peace. Without the initiative of the late President [Anwar] Sadat, I don't think a single Arab country would have had the courage to negotiate with the Israelis. They should realize this.

TIME: Are you still giving Netanyahu a chance?

Mubarak: I cannot give him a chance for four years. In July I told him, "I'm telling the people to give you a chance. Please do something. It is very important for the public opinion not only in Egypt but in the whole Arab world." Then came August, September, October. No progress. What can I tell public opinion? "Give him a chance"? Till when?

TIME: How do you read his intentions?

Mubarak: I had long talks with him. He promised me that he was going to implement what was signed before. Nothing happened. I can't understand it. Is this because of differences in his Cabinet? I told him, "Please start implementing the agreements. Start with [Israeli army deployment from] Hebron. Ease the closure [of Israel to Palestinian workers]. This is the only way to make people trust the new Israeli government." Mind you, the Syrians are telling me, "How can you trust this man? Look at what he is doing with the Palestinians!"

TIME: Is it so unreasonable for Netanyahu to request adjustments in light of Israeli security concerns?

Mubarak: I heard that he wants to change the whole agreement on Hebron. But Arafat will be unable to do this. It will mean the failure of Arafat among his people. If Arafat disappears, the Palestinians will not sit with folded arms. Violence may start. Not only against the Israelis but against those who support the Israelis.

TIME: Netanyahu says peace must come with security.

Mubarak: To freeze the peace talks--thinking you will maintain security first--you will keep working on security until the end of the world. When you are implementing peace agreements, there will be violence. It happened with [the late Prime Minister Yitzhak] Rabin. There will be some sacrifices. But it is worth it.

TIME: Why did you boycott the Middle East summit at the White House?

Mubarak: I know President Clinton was doing his best just to bring the two leaders together. But I knew that there would be no output from this meeting. I hope they can do something. The situation is boiling. The people are fed up all over the Arab world.

TIME: What can Egypt do?

Mubarak: We are trying to give advice to the Israelis and persuade the Palestinians to move on the right track. You want me to pressure the Palestinians to accept something they don't accept? I can't put any pressure on either side.

TIME: Would you advise the U.S. to pressure Israel?

Mubarak: I don't want to use the word pressure. The U.S. should persuade Israelis at least to respect the agreement. The U.S. is busy now with the elections. Let's wait and see after the elections.

TIME: How are Egypt's relations with Israel?

Mubarak: Strained. For one main reason: we are reflecting public opinion. The people are furious. Some elements in this country say, "Cut diplomatic relations." I am very keen for the process to move forward, not to freeze diplomatic relations.

TIME: Will the Middle East economic summit in Cairo next month be able to produce results?

Mubarak: If Mr. Netanyahu moves forward and respects his words, it would be helpful. If not, maybe there will be some complications, tough discussions between the Israeli delegation and the other delegations. They have lots of trade in the Arab world. If we don't reach a definite peace, all this trade will stop. Israel is a Middle Eastern country. She cannot live isolated.

TIME: Israelis complain about the "cold peace" with Egypt. Doesn't that justify Israel's security concerns?

Mubarak: Israel will be accepted when it gives the Arabs all the rights. Under Rabin and Shimon Peres, it made very good steps forward with the Arabs. Since Mr. Netanyahu came, everything is frozen. Everything is frozen.