President Bill Clinton "That's What Drives Me Nuts"

By Margaret Carlson, James Carney and Bill Clinton

TIME correspondents Margaret Carlson and James Carney talked with the President in the Oval Office last week. On his desk were a biography of Woodrow Wilson and the latest book by sociologist Amitai Etzioni.

TIME: Several of your nominees for top positions have run into heavy criticism in Congress. Is the process too harsh?

Clinton: First of all, it takes too long to get anybody appointed. People who are independent and who have led interesting lives may be able to get elected to public office but may not be able to get appointed to anything. It's just | ridiculous. And thoughtful people in both parties recognize it. I'm trying to think of a device we can employ next year to get a good, fresh bipartisan look at the whole appointments process.

TIME: You have talked publicly about poor people and minorities taking some of the responsibility for their own problems. Doesn't this represent a departure from basic Democratic beliefs?

Clinton: The ministers in Memphis and the community leaders and parents in East Los Angeles responded so strongly because what I said was consistent with their lives. What they want is some order, some discipline, some basic sanity and balance in their lives. And they know that the government can't give them all that but that we have to provide a framework and do what we can. And then they're going to have to do something.

TIME: Is that something only a Democrat can say, because if a Republican President says it, it just sounds like "family values"?

A. Clinton: The difference is when I do it, I don't give a speech at a civic club, I do it in the inner cities. If you gave it to a group of wealthy individuals who want to be told that they have no responsibilities for the future of America, then it wouldn't have credibility.

TIME: There's a story in the paper today saying that the stigma has been removed from teenage pregnancy and that Democrats are responsible. What would you say to these children having children?

A. Clinton: That we think it is wrong for young people who are not married and not ready to deliberately have children. We ought to say that this world would be a lot better if babies were born to intact families.

On the other hand, I think we have to be careful about two things. I don't want to see society get in a position where the message is: If you get pregnant, it's better to have an abortion than to have the child. Secondly, I think we have to recognize that a lot of ((these young women)) are living in a world very different from the one we live in, not only because there's no stigma but because there are also not the kind of structural day-to-day moral supports for not having children out of wedlock. What we need is an approach that recognizes the whole problem: the family breakdown, the moral breakdown, the total absence of traditional economic opportunity.

TIME: Did the death of Vince Foster ever make you ask yourself, Is it really worth it?

Clinton: I think the trick of being in public life in this day and age, when / there is always going to be a lot of clamor and criticism, is to be able to take all this barrage of criticism seriously but not personally. In other words, you have to listen to the people who are criticizing you because they're right sometimes. And Benjamin Franklin said long ago, Our enemies are our friends, for they show us our faults.

But I try to encourage the people around here all the time, when we're under all this pressure, that we should be on a personal basis with our own harshest critics, but that we should never permit the criticism of others to diminish our self-image. I think one of the things we all have to guard against here in this town is that it is so fixated on politics and demands such long hours of most people that you forget what a balanced life is like. It makes people more vulnerable.

TIME: How much time can you spend with Mrs. Clinton and Chelsea? How do you pull yourself away from work?

Clinton: I think it will get better next year. But to be fair, believe it or not, it's somewhat easier for me ((than for the staff)) just because I live where I work.

TIME: So do you go upstairs in the middle of the day?

Clinton: Sometimes I do. If I hear that Chelsea's come home from school, I just walk over there and see what she's doing. If I work until 7:30 p.m., I can go home to dinner at 7:30 p.m. and have three hours with Chelsea and Hillary.

And I think that parenting is the most important job in this society and the one that has been neglected most. I think having people with families work here makes for a place more in touch with the real world. So I'm concerned about it. Next year will be a more livable environment for our people. I'm determined to see that it is.

TIME: There have been recent reports about your temper. Do you have one?

Clinton: Yes, but the reports on it aren't exactly right. What bothers me are not big things and bad news. I like it when people come in and disagree here. I get frustrated when I think that something is wrong with the system, and so we're not doing our best for the American people. I don't think I should ever lose my temper, but when I do it's because of some process screw-up. If there's something wrong with the way we're organized or something that keeps us from doing ((our best)), that's what drives me nuts.