"People Are Impatient"

By John Borrell, Tadeusz Kucharski, Tadeusz Mazowiecki

In his first major interview with a Western news organization since taking office two weeks ago, Polish Prime Minister Tadeusz Mazowiecki met for an hour last week with TIME's Eastern Europe bureau chief, John Borrell, and Warsaw reporter Tadeusz Kucharski. In a typical display of informality, Mazowiecki did not request written questions in advance and had no aides present during the meeting, which took place in his sparsely furnished offices in downtown Warsaw. Excerpts:

Q. As a member of Solidarity, you were jailed by the government for a year in 1982. Did you ever think it would come to this, that you would be sitting here as Prime Minister of Poland?

A. ((Chuckle.)) No, I never imagined it, not even a week before the decision was made. And certainly not when I was interned.

Q. What is your biggest concern now that you are in power?

A. In order to succeed, the government needs time. But people are very impatient with the lack of commodities; they are impatient with high prices. People expect quick results.

Q. Is the West giving Poland enough money?

A. Immediate assistance is what we badly need right now. And quick assistance is twice as valuable. First of all, we want speedy relief in our debt- servicing obligations, then economic aid for particular projects that would help our economy develop. We think the West understands that if we do not succeed, the world will also have failed at something that is important. But we are not just after emergency aid. We are also looking for long-lasting economic ties. Even if a partnership today between the West and Poland is not an equal one, tomorrow it will turn out to be profitable for the West.

Q. Now that Solidarity is in power, are splits within the organization growing?

A. For a long time in Poland, authorities preached a false doctrine of unanimity, and the opposition suppressed its divisions for fear of weakening ! itself. Now we have to proceed toward normality. Obviously there are different interest groups inside Solidarity, and from this great movement will surely emerge new political parties. This should run its natural course.

Q. So it's not a bad thing for new political parties to emerge?

A. Moving toward a natural state of affairs is always a good thing.

Q. Do you think Lech Walesa wants to run Poland from the sidelines?

A. I have a high regard for Lech Walesa's political instincts and maturity and for his ability to take the initiative. We have always had good cooperation. We have always respected each other's point of view. I think this relationship will continue.

Q. Is Communism finished in Poland?

A. ((A deep chuckle, then a long pause.)) The transformation now taking place would not have been possible if it were not for the support of Communist Party members. They deserve credit for initiating the round-table talks last year. These reform-minded party members paid a high price for this in last June's parliamentary elections. It so happens that sometimes in politics and history, the ones who pay are not the ones who are at fault. I told President Wojciech Jaruzelski last week that the success of my government will depend on his help. I don't think Communism will disappear, but I believe it will undergo a transformation.

Q. Will Communism play an important role in Poland's future?

A. Please, I am the Prime Minister of a government. I can answer your questions as a Prime Minister but not as an ideological prophet. Only by joint effort can we steer Poland into the future. No one undertaking this task has suicide on his mind. He must have hope in the future.

Q. Do you admire Mikhail Gorbachev?

A. Yes, yes. I consider him a very courageous and outstanding statesman who does great things.

Q. Would Poland's experiment in democracy have been impossible without him?

A. Yes. He is a very important factor.

Q. You used to be the editor of Solidarity's newspaper. Is politics harder than journalism?

A. ((Chuckle.)) What do you think?

Q. I am sorry, but I have never been a Prime Minister.

A. But everyone carries a general's baton in his knapsack. As an editor, I wasn't fishing for sensational stories. I was always aware of my paper's political responsibilities, so I don't feel uncomfortable changing jobs. Of course it is different being editor of a 500,000-circulation newspaper and being a Prime Minister. At first I felt as if a great rock were put on my shoulders. Someone wrote that during the confirmation vote, I looked like a condemned man waiting for his sentence to be passed. When I looked at myself on TV, I saw a stranger. Only now am I beginning to identify myself with the image that appears on TV.

Q. If you had only one wish, what would it be? That you would get more sleep, spend more time with your family, that Poland would receive billions of dollars in aid?

A. Yes, of course I would like that ((chuckling)).

Q. The last one?

A. I would have two wishes. The last one you mentioned, and that I could go to the forest and spend the whole day in the woods.

Q. To think?

A. To relax.