Following An Independent Course

By Hafez Assad, Karsten Prager, John F. Stacks, Dean Fischer, David S. Jackson

His troops are mired in the unending civil war in Lebanon, where 13 Western hostages are being held. Against his wishes, p.l.o. Chairman Yasser Arafat has recognized Israel's right to exist. The U.S. and Britain chastise him for harboring a Palestinian guerrilla group, some of whose members are leading suspects in the bombing of Pan Am Flight 103. Yet Syria's wily President Hafez Assad appeared unruffled and even jovial last week, as he maneuvered through the region's perilous political landscape for three hours in a rare interview with TIME Assistant Managing Editors Karsten Prager and John F. Stacks, Cairo bureau chief Dean Fischer and correspondent David S. Jackson. Excerpts:

Q. Do the Palestinian uprising and the U.S.-P.L.O. dialogue increase Syria's isolation from the rest of the Arab world?

A. No. We don't see any linkage. In the conflict between the Arabs and the Israelis, relations cannot be described in terms of isolation or non- isolation. Syria could have opened the door to discussions with Israel, and Israel would have welcomed that. Egypt extended its hand in the past, but when Anwar Sadat visited Jerusalem, it did not affect our policy toward Israel. No other separate action will have that effect.

Q. You have criticized Yasser Arafat for pursuing a policy of concessions. But in light of the U.S.-P.L.O. dialogue, hasn't his policy helped the peace process?

A. We are interested in a just peace. So far, we have not seen a thing to convince us that Arafat has brought peace nearer.

Q. If Arafat produced results, would you admit you were wrong?

A. No. Our position toward the Palestinian cause did not begin with the creation of the P.L.O. We believe Israel has aspirations beyond Palestinian territory. Israel aspires to the establishment of a state from the Nile to the Euphrates.

Q. The Israelis think Syria has expansionist aims.

A. Our aspiration is to create pan-Arab unity from Mauritania to the gulf. Arabs have a common language and history. You can scarcely find a family in Lebanon that does not have relatives in Syria. We are one people. But Israel * is another story. The Israelis are an alien people with another heritage and another history.

Q. Has Syria learned anything about the hostages in Lebanon?

A. First, we do not know their location. Second, we don't know who the kidnapers are. Any miscalculation in approaching this matter may result in the death of hostages rather than in saving their lives. In the past, a number of our soldiers were killed in attempts to find the hostages, but despite that we could not find them. A number of hostages have been released with our help, but we could not help all of them. We hope in the future our efforts will help all of them as it has helped those in the past.

Q. Doesn't Syria's sponsorship of organizations such as the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine-General Command ((P.F.L.P.-G.C.)), which is suspected in the Pan Am bombing, hurt your image around the world?

A. Suspicions don't affect our positions. If people judged one another based only on suspicions, we would see a new world war break out every day just on the basis of suspicions. Nobody can prove P.F.L.P.-G.C. involvement in the matter. No one has any evidence. If there is something new in the matter, whoever produces it, we hope he will let us know about it.

Q. Then what would you do?

A. If the one who has committed that action is on our territory, he will be held accountable, and he will be brought to judgment. If it is proved that this action comes from the leadership of the P.F.L.P.-G.C., then we will deal with this matter at that time. We must distinguish between an individual action and an official action. I find it extremely unlikely that the P.F.L.P.-G.C. can be behind this action, because this group more than any other concentrates its activities totally on the occupied territories.

Q. What is Syria's position on Ayatullah Khomeini's death sentence against Salman Rushdie?

A. I am not a clergyman or a judge. Ayatullah Khomeini is a believer, a Muslim holy man. What he says relies on Islamic principles and rules he believes in. He discusses matters in ways different from the way you and I discuss issues. There are Islamic provisions which apply to cases like that of Rushdie. But irrespective of other issues, Rushdie as a human being is a bad fellow, and his behavior provokes suspicion.

Q. Is Syria prepared to allow Egypt to be re-admitted to the Arab League, and also to restore diplomatic relations with Egypt?

A. ((Laughing)) What have you left for the Arab summit conference to deal with? For the time being, our situation with Egypt can be termed positive. But regarding our position on whether or not Egypt should re-enter the Arab League, this is going to be discussed at the Arab summit conference. At that time, we will express our opinion.

Q. Do you expect Syria to restore diplomatic relations with Egypt?

A. This is a very premature question.

Q. When you were an air force pilot, you had a classmate by the name of Hosni Mubarak.

A. I liked Hosni Mubarak the officer.

Q. But not Hosni Mubarak the Egyptian President?

A. We were on good terms. We spoke the same language, the language of pilots.

Q. Are you not speaking the same language anymore?

A. We are still speaking the same language, but neither of us is hearing the other.

Q. Perhaps you will speak the same language again.

A. I am sure we will.