"Starting Point for a Solution"

General Ariel ("Arik") Sharon, 53, has long been known as a "hawks'hawk" among Israeli politicians. As Agriculture Minister in the last Begin government, he was the leading advocate of building new Israeli settlements in the occupied territories. But now, as Defense Minister, he is pressing for a transition from military to civilian rule in the West Bank and the Gaza Strip. Last week Sharon gave TIME'S Jerusalem bureau chief David Aikman an exclusive briefing on the West Bank moves and his views on the Palestinian problem. Excerpts:

On His Plan for Civilian Rule in the Occupied Territories: I believe that one of the basic conditions for any dialogue with the inhabitants of Judea, Samaria and the Gaza district is to free them from the fear of terrorism. But I decided to draw a clear line between the actions that we have to take against Arab terrorists and the civilian administration of the region. I think that the majority of the population do not participate in any terrorist activities at all, and I believe they should not suffer the steps that are taken against terrorists. The local inhabitants are partners in the [autonomy] negotiations. I'm building a structure that will enable them to take an active part in the administration of the region, without being blamed for acting against their brothers.

On Solving the Palestinian Problem: I believe that the starting point for a solution is to establish a Palestinian state in the part of Palestine that was separated from [what was to become] Israel in 1922 and which is now Jordan.

Some 80% of the population of Jordan is Palestinian. Most of the prominent members of the government are Palestinian Arabs--the same Arabs who are living in Galilee, in Nazareth, in Haifa. The only strangers are the members of the Hashemite Kingdom [ruled by King Hussein].

In September 1970 there was a debate in the army over whether to respond to the Syrian invasion of Jordan. I was part of a minority who said that for the first time, there was an opportunity to start solving the Palestinian problem. The solution was to let the Hashemite Kingdom disappear.

I don't mean that if we had a Palestinian state in Jordan we would have good neighbors. There would be a bitter conflict, but the conflict would be over territory, not over the right [of Palestinians] to exist as a nation. King Hussein is not a partner in the Camp David talks. I don't mind who takes over Jordan.

On the Role of the Palestinians in the Autonomy Negotiations: They will have to decide what they want. We are not going to press them. We are going to create the atmosphere, a free one. I'm not trying to cheat anyone. I'd like to create an atmosphere where it is possible to talk without any fear--either of terrorist organizations or of the Israeli authorities.

On the Future of the West Bank: We are talking about an area that is not going to be annexed by either side. Israel will be responsible for the Jewish population of Judea and Samaria, and the Palestinian state will have the Arab population as its citizens.

I believe that 30 years from now, there should be about 1 million Jews living in a ten-mile to 15-mile radius around Jerusalem. I believe that in the rest of Judea and Samaria, there will be about 300,000 Jews. If there is a steady annual influx of 15,000 Jews into Israel, and other factors remain the same, there will be about 4.7 million Jews in Israel by the year 2000. The question is, where would you like to settle them? If you are looking at the needs of this population for security, then the population should be spread out.

What might be the final solution on the West Bank? I'll answer you. There are many places where nothing has been solved finally. There is East Berlin and West Berlin. I've been there at the Wall. Has that been solved? No.

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