An Interview with Gaddafi

"We are against the manufacture and acquisition of nuclear weapons"

Q. Would you respond to the Reagan Administration's charge that Libya backs international terrorism in general, and, more specifically, that it backs terrorist Palestinian groups, the Irish Republican Army, the Red Brigades, the Red Army Faction, the ETA [Basque separatists] and others?

A. First, the American Government is not entitled to talk about terrorism, since it practices the highest degree of terrorism in the world. Furthermore, the American Government is not a policeman. It ought to correct its own behavior before it talks about the behavior of others. Secondly, there is a big difference between supporting liberation movements, the just cause of people fighting for freedom, and supporting terrorism. We have emphasized many times that we are opposed to real terrorism. But there is no justification for putting the P.L.O. on the list of terrorist organizations. The cause of the Irish people is also not terrorist. We give [the I.R.A.] moral, but not material, support. The other organizations you mentioned are terrorist, and we have no connection whatsoever with them.

Q. How do you understand terrorism?

A. We put the production of nuclear weapons at the top of the list of terrorist activities. As long as the big powers continue to manufacture atomic weapons, it means they are continuing to terrorize the world; also the deployment of military bases on other countries' territories; also deploying naval fleets around the world. This is one reason why the U.S. is a top terrorist force in the world.

Q. The Soviet Union does all those things. Is it terrorist?

A. The manufacture of atomic weapons by anyone is terroristic. But the Soviet Union has no military bases on others' territories.

Q. But doesn't the presence of 85,000 Soviet troops in Afghanistan--a formerly independent nonaligned Islamic country--sharply contradict what you are saying? Not to mention garrisoning of Soviet troops in the socialist countries of Eastern Europe and the establishment of a large Soviet naval base in Viet Nam?

A. I am not here to be an advocate for the Soviet Union. Of course it is a superpower.

Q. Under what circumstances would you carry out your past threat to join the Warsaw Pact?

A. It would be a necessity when America constitutes a real threat against Libya. If Egypt, the Sudan and other neighboring countries were to put themselves in the service of the Atlantic Alliance, for example, then the necessity [of Libya's joining the Warsaw Pact] might arise.

Q. Would Egypt's acceptance of American troops stationed on its territory meet that condition in your view?

A. If Egypt was in the service of the Atlantic Alliance, in any form, we would have to reconsider our position as a whole. We would face a serious situation.

Q. There is considerable anxiety that Libya it self may acquire a nuclear weapon, whether on its own or through cooperation with Pakistan in the development of an "Islamic bomb." Yet you describe the acquisition of such weapons as the ultimate in international terrorism.

A. I have nothing but scorn for the notion of an Islamic bomb. There is no such thing as an Islamic bomb or a "Christian bomb." Any such weapon is a means of terrorizing humanity, and we are against the manufacture and acquisition of nuclear weapons. This is in line with our definition of--and opposition to--terrorism.

Q. Are you saying Libya will never try to develop or possess a nuclear weapon?

A. Yes, but this does not mean we will spare any effort to use atomic energy for peaceful purposes.

Q. What is your reaction to the U.S. Government's charge that Libya was behind the attempted execution of an anti-Gaddafi student in Colorado?

A. I have heard that an American made the attempt on the life of this student, and we have asked for an investigation into this incident. Anyhow, Libyans are being exposed to many difficulties in the U.S. There have been attempts on their lives and pressure on them to go into the service of the Central Intelligence Agency. In fact we are seriously thinking of not sending any more Libyan students to the U.S. In the face of these pressures, we may also have to withdraw the students who are already there.

Q. Are you seriously suggesting that the attempt on the life of the student in Colorado was perpetrated by an American Government agency?

A. Yes, it is possible. I do not think there was any involvement of any Libyans in this affair.

Q. If you do re-call your students from the U.S., some may prefer to stay there, since they oppose your leadership. Would people who make that choice be subject to punishment by your authorities either here or abroad?

A. Of course not, but there are revolutionary committees that practice revolutionary violence, and anyone who opposes the will of the people will have to be chased. Anyone who is opposed to the will of the people becomes a foe of the people.

Q. And therefore subject to revolutionary violence?

A. The duty of the revolutionary committee is to practice revolutionary violence against the enemies of the revolution.

Q. Returning to the problem of terrorism, what is your attitude toward violent acts carried out against often innocent bystanders to a political struggle?

A. I oppose localized incidents such as aircraft hijacking and hostage taking. But they are nothing compared with the terrorism America is practicing. We believe America is practicing all kinds of terrorism against Libya. Even the accusation that we are involved in terrorism is in itself an act of terrorism.

Q. By the way, have you read the novel The Fifth Horseman, in which you figure as an apocalyptic nuclear terrorist?

A. Yes, but I mock such ridiculous fiction.

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