"Assad Is Not a Fool'"

Israeli Prime Minister Menachem Begin, 67, was visibly tired and strained from the tensions of the confrontation with Syria last week. In the midst of feverish diplomatic efforts to head off a further escalation, he discussed the crisis with TIME Jerusalem Bureau Chief David Aikman in his wood-paneled office and conveyed the impression that he was seeking a face-saving way for both countries to step back from the brink.

Excerpts:

On the risk of war with Syria: We don't want war with Syria, and I believe that the Syrians don't want war with Is rael. We hate war and hate bloodshed, and we want to give peace to our people. As far as the Syrians are concerned, they are a very warlike nation. They proved to Lebanon that they are very cruel. They bombarded civilians in the thousands with heavy cannon, tanks and missiles. They mas sacred them, like the Nazis did to the civilians in Europe.

This is an exact comparison. However, I believe that President Assad is not a fool, and that he understands the relative strength of Syria and Israel.

Therefore I assume he does not want war with Israel. Risks may be involved, but not of a general confrontation.

On U.S. diplomacy in the crisis: The U.S. made great efforts, they bore fruit, and they are continuing. Whether they will bear fruit in the future, I cannot say. The Syrians have a kind of attitude of contempt toward the U.S. and its ambassador. Assad didn't receive the U.S. Ambassador [to Damascus] during the past year, but he did receive the Soviet ambassador. The U.S. has been using the good offices of other nations, and we appreciate that very much.

On a so-called red line in Lebanon:

There isn't a red line. It's a theory, and if some people used to talk about a red line, it was always movable, always changed. It is, in my opinion, a foolish expression.

On an alleged U.S. "green light" for Israel's action in Lebanon: We never asked for green lights or yellow lights, We are an independent state. But we are allies of the U.S. We consult with each other. When we have problems, we clarify them, but no pressure whatsoever is being exerted. [U.S. Ambassador Samuel] Lewis brought me a message from Secretary Haig stating that the U.S. would like to continue with diplomatic efforts, and they advised what is usually called restraint.

On Syrian missiles in Lebanon: We haven't yet declared that we know there are missiles. There is news [of missiles], but we have to find out. If there should be an incident, well, it is a fight. We might lose a plane, but there is no reason to take revenge on anyone. I don't think we should initiate hostilities against Syria as such, but the situation calls for attention, for thinking. At the proper time, we shall take the proper decisions. Who can say in advance?

On the Syrian threat to Lebanese Christians: It is a very serious threat, and we are not going to acquiesce in any attempt to wipe out the Christian minority, either in the north or in the south. If, for instance, the Syrians continued with their bombardment of open cities, this would, of course, be an attempt to obliterate [the Christians].

On the risk to the peace treaty with Egypt if there is conflict with Syria:

In my opinion President Sadat will never allow a breach of the treaty. I believe that President Sadat wants peace. The treaty forbids an intervention [on Syria's side] by Egypt. It is clearly stated. There cannot be any misunderstanding. By the way, President Sadat said that he prefers me as a person to Assad. It's a great compliment. I must say that since I was born I never heard such, a compliment.

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