An Interview with Arafat

The P.L.O. 's head vows to fight on against Israel

Armed guards were everywhere, and the trip to the headquarters of the P.L.O. leader was made in secrecy. Yasser Arafat saw TIME Cairo Bureau Chief Dean Brelis and Beirut Reporter Abu Said Abu Rish in one of his hideaway offices in Beirut. He seemed confident, even buoyantly happy, as he talked for two hours. Excerpts:

On the P.L.O.'s conditions for peace. I have declared many times that without the Palestinian rights, without their rights to return to their homelands, without their rights for self-determination, without their rights to establish an independent state, there is no peace, no stability, no security, no settlement. My condition for peace is a just condition. I'm asking that my people, the Palestinian people, have the opportunity to live in peace in their independent state as human beings. Your President used to speak a lot about human rights, but where are his human rights when he approaches Palestinian rights? He completely forgets these rights in this moment. He is only looking through Israeli glasses and from Israeli angles. I am sorry to say that presidency votes are also his angle.

You can't protect your interests through this false peace. What President Carter is doing now through Begin and Sadat is to establish a new military treaty in this area. It is at the expense of Palestinians and their rights.

I don't like war. I would like to return to my work, my original profession as a civil engineer. Every Palestinian would like to live in peace. But if you are pushing us into a corner with this false treaty, we haven't any other choice but to defend ourselves. [Arafat mocked the prospect of limited self-rule for a Palestinian state held out by the Camp David agreements.] Self-rule? Self-rule without any control of the land and even the water --the water for drinking? If you were in my position, would you accept it, this new slavery to my people?

For the sake of our future, the future of our children, we shall fight. We don't want to be like the red Indians, and we will not be. Even in our exodus, in the harsh and tough life of our diaspora, after we had been kicked out of our homeland, we the Palestinian people have the highest percentage of educated people in this area. So we will not be red Indians.

On how negotiations should start. Negotiations with whom? With Begin who threatens to burn my fingers? Definitely we are searching for peace and we consider that peace can best be settled through the United Nations.

On his reaction to the treaty signing. What a favor for us! I can't imagine how you can call this treaty a peace treaty. At the same time you are offering this big amount of military support and aid, and you are calling it peace?

Before you visited this area you put on a big show of power. You now declare you will create a new fleet in the south of our area. What is this peace that you are covering with sophisticated weapons?

On the kind of boycott he envisions the Arab world imposing on Sadat. Only Sadat? I am also asking a boycott be imposed against the U.S. I know it will not be an easy battle. You are putting on a show of military power in this area. But I will not give up. One year ago, you were thinking that no power could shake your emperor, the Shah of Iran. Where is he now? All your up-to-date and sophisticated weapons today are in the hands of our allies. The Iranians' revolution with our Imam Khomeini has obtained these very confidential and secret American instruments. [Asked if he expected military aid from Iran, Arafat replied, "No comment."]

On his expectations of renewed fighting in south Lebanon. The Israelis are now massing their troops. In the north of Palestine they now have one division in position. They are threatening us and the Syrians. Their propaganda against us is certain to intensify now that they have signed the treaty and they are free of their "Western Front." [Arafat was referring to Israel's border with Egypt, which he felt would not remain quiet.] We know that Egyptians will not accept for long the humiliation. They didn't accept the British occupation. They will not accept this new American occupation of the Sinai.

In my opinion and according to our analysis, [the Israelis] are preparing for a pre-emptive strike against the north and east fronts. They may cause some problems for us, for the Syrians and for the Jordanians. We will face it. But the battle will not be only on this front. If you put a cat in the corner, it will defend itself. What if you put a tiger in a corner?

On whether Carter, Sadat and Begin will get any assistance from Palestinians in the forthcoming negotiations on the West Bank. They can ask the masses. Demonstrations, resistance, uprising is our reply. Our people is our time bomb against this conspiracy. My people will deal with anyone who joins the treaty negotiations. We are a very determined people.

On the P.L.O. strategy for the months ahead. Actions speak louder than words. You are trying to squeeze a tiger into a corner, and he will fight back.

On the P.L.O.'s relations with the rest of the Arab world, particularly Saudi Arabia and Jordan. We have very good relations with both of them. Some days ago, I had very successful talks with King Hussein. We have agreed on many measures. We have very good relations with Saudi Arabia, with King Khalid and Crown Prince Fahd and all the other officials of the Saudi government. [Arafat argues that Saudi Arabia and Jordan will resist American efforts to get their backing for the treaty.] They haven't any other choice. You think that the King of Mecca can agree under any circumstances to sell Jerusalem? Do you think that King Hussein would agree for the Israelis to continue their occupation of Jerusalem? It was under his control before the Israeli occupation. When I speak about Jerusalem it is the core of the whole problem. Jerusalem is the quintessence.

Our cause, the Palestinian cause, is the conscience of the entire region. To put it bluntly, you can't understand this, because with your computers you are participating in a huge, malevolent conspiracy against the Palestinian people.

On whether he expects more wars in the Middle East. Definitely. The visit of President Carter to this area made him a Chamberlain. You don't know what you have done with this treaty. You have planted dynamite in this area. There will be a lot of surprises. It is a quicksand area. I am sorry to say that for some votes of the Jewish community in the U.S., your Administration has done great damage to American interests in the Middle East. Sooner or later this will become more than apparent. Most likely soon.

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