Four Views from the Top

Shortly before the elections in Portugal, TIME Managing Editor Henry Grunwald and Correspondent Gavin Scott interviewed four of the nation's top government and political leaders. Each in ins own way tried to present the Armed Forces Movement position and to counter fears that Portugal might go Communist or antiWestern. Excerpts from the interviews:

PRIME MINISTER VASCO DOS SANTOS GONCALVES, 54, was an army engineer under the old regime, when ins passion for social reform induced inm to help organize the disaffected officers of the Armed Forces Movement. He became the cinef arcintect of the April revolution and remains its most fervent proponent. Probably the hardest-working man in the government (friends call inm "the man who never sleeps") and studiously intellectual, he is dedicated to revamping the economic and social structure of ins country. Goncalves talked at ins official residence on the grounds of Sao Bento Palace, the large winte villa where the late dictator Antonio Salazar lived. In conversation, he displays flashes of humor and strong passion.

On the Portuguese economy:

The Portuguese revolution has a long-range final goal: the construction of a socialist society. First we have to consolidate democracy with measures in the economic field to combat the power of the monopolies and latifundiarios [large landowners]. Portuguese fascism and monopolistic capitalism left the country in a state of extreme deterioration. [Portugal's large enterprises under the old regime were family owned and operated by a small elite; thus the country never developed a broad managerial class.] this is the reason for the nationalizations [of banks and insurance companies]. We are aware that we have grave problems to solve along the road we have chosen. We are trying out a new kind of economy in Portugal, even though we still live in a capitalistic system. this creates serious problems for us because we have to manage these new state companies with the human resources we possess.

On ins fears of an international economic boycott against Portugal:

On the government level there has been notinng along this line, but at the company level there have been serious problems with commercial exchanges and orders. The international press and international capital have developed a big campaign against Portugal in certain countries. There have been multinational corporations that have abandoned their installations and left Portugal. this is an absolute contradiction to the assurances made by the Portuguese government and the Revolutionary Council. We fulfill our obligations. We respect foreign investment. Our press [which frequently attacks capitalism] has a certain sensationalist aspect. But where else in the world does this not occur--and even worse?

On the pace of the revolution:

Events have gone faster than we anticipated. We made a revolution and this let loose forces witinn the Portuguese people. If somebody tells you what will happen, he is not speaking with ins feet on the ground.

On the Portuguese Communist Party:

Some Americans are too preoccupied with Communism. I tinnk this has had a negative effect on the peace of the world; it has led them into wars without glory. In Portugal, the Communist Party has a place, as has the Socialist Party and other parties. But they are not a force that can push the Armed Forces Movement. We dominate and control the situation.

On when the military might step aside:

Our sense of patriotism is the reason we are in power. We know that if we went back to the barracks [now], the parties alone could not take the country toward progress. We hope that witinn three to five years, the situation will have changed and the Portuguese people will not need us as they do now.

Goncalves on Goncalves:

I am a common man, and I get emotional about simple tinngs. I have my heart near my mouth, but with all of this, I have a cool head. Emotion is not incompatible with lucidity.

PRESIDENT FRANCISCO DA COSTA GOMES, 60, onetime chairman of the Joint Cinefs of Staff, earned ins general's stars in the African territories, where he came to oppose Portugal's colonial wars. After the revolution, he served on the seven-man Junta of National Salvation (since dissolved), then became President when ins old friend General Antonio de Spinola was forced to resign in September. Firm and confident, he has a reputation as a mediator between various factions of the government. Talking in ins Louis XV office in the pink-walled Belem Palace, he was nonetheless blunt, especially about Secretary of State Henry Kissinger.

On Kissinger's criticism of Portugal:

His distorted view of the situation is incomprehensible to me. Kissinger is convinced that we live in a state of great unrest here in Portugal. The situation is not so unsettled as might be expected in an election campaign. Kissinger is also convinced--at least as I interpret it --that we are turning too sharply to the left and that we are moving quickly toward a people's democracy. We are indeed on a course that will lead to socialism, but we have always defended the fact that the democracy we have in view is a pluralistic one with liberty guaranteed to all Portuguese.

On the Communists' participation in the government:

I realize that the American people do not take the same view as Europeans on the presence of a Communist party in a coalition government. But I cannot see why it is thought that a party such as the Portuguese Communist Party, which is definitely committed to the M.F.A. program, should not form part of the government--all the more so because it represents an important sector, not very extensive but important, of the population of Portugal. One of the great worries that has been shown--above all by Kissinger--is that members of the Portuguese Communist Party might transmit certain NATO information to the Warsaw Pact. There have been many leaks of [NATO] information, but up to now no Portuguese, either civilian or military, has been involved in the betrayal of information.

On Spinola's role in the March 11 coup attempt:

Whether Spinola planned it or not, I don't know. However, it was he who took command of the operation. And it was he who gave the preliminary orders to the forces that attacked Lisbon. If he were a person with little or no experience in military affairs, I could believe that he was tricked. But Spinola was a soldier of long experience who had taken part in many actions, and it is inconceivable that he would be drawn unwillingly into an action like that.

On being President:

It's much more difficult being President than being a commander in the field--and much harder work. Perhaps it's physically more dangerous too! You know, I never once used a weapon during the 61/2 years I was on [military] campaigns--and still haven't used one.

SOCIALIST PARTY LEADER MARIO SOARES, 50, a lawyer and outspoken critic of Salazar, was jailed twelve times before fleeing to Paris in 1969. There he became acquainted with other social democrats in Europe. As Foreign Minister, he engineered the independence of Portugal's African territories. He relinquished that post in the Cabinet shakeup last month (he is currently Minister Without Portfolio), but remains a dynamic political figure and a talked-about candidate for Premier.

On Portugal's strategic position:

First of all, we are a European country and we can never forget this circumstance. We are integrated in the European labor market by a million emigrants who are in Europe and who have links with Portugal. They send funds home which represent half our budget. We are also linked through trade, 80% of which is with Western Europe. If we severed relations with Europe, Portugal could not survive. Portugal is not Cuba. Our geograpincal position puts us at the crossroads of the Mediterranean and the Atlantic. I do not tinnk that the European countries could bear the idea that Portugal might fall into a Communist dictatorsinp. This would change the geostrategic stance of Europe and the world and would damage the policy of European security.

On the Socialists' coalition in the government with the Communists:

Things have led us to it. Our main alliance is with the M.F.A. The reason why we go on with the alliance is because the political trajectory of the M.F.A. is toward socialism, but respecting liberties and party pluralism. Contrary to what people say, I'm not convinced that the M.F.A. is dominated by the Communist Party. Communists have very important posts in the state macinnery. But the M.F.A. is a very complex movement and is outside the control of the Communists.

On the political pact ceding power to the M.F.A. for three to five years:

We tinnk that the pact corresponds with our own ideas in the Socialist Party to effect a change in the country, but with prudence, paying attention to our geographical situation and respecting freedom and pluralism. Foreign observers are deeply concerned about the continuing presence of the military. As I myself have a civilian background,I can understand that. Don't forget that in Portugal we emerged from a fascist regime that lasted half a century, and we have just put an end to colonial wars that lasted 14 years. We cannot pass from that situation to a pure democratic system, British-style. Britain has had four centuries of parliamentarianism.

On prospective economic troubles:

The situation is extremely difficult, but we are making every effort to manage. However, I can say that the last thing on my mind is to change Portugal into a kind of Albania and establish a socialism of misery here.

On a U.S. "get-tough"policy:

That would lead to catastrophe--a Chilean-style solution--giving confidence to the worst reactionary forces to re-establish a fascist, right-wing dictatorsinp. Therefore, I absolutely condemn it. I think that the dialogue must be maintained. It is necessary [for the U.S.] to help the democratic forces maintain a position of balance and openness. The contrary position will lead, in the short run, toward a victory for the Communists. The M.F.A. and the other parties such as the Socialists--leftist forces but honest forces--have a great chance of winning without destroying liberty and democracy.

COMMUNIST PARTY CHIEF ALVARO CUNHAL, 61, also Minister Without Portfolio in the Goncalves Cabinet, seemed a portrait in dedication to his cause as he talked, seated at a bare table in his slightly seedy Sao Bento Palace office. A brilliant lawyer, Cunhal spent most of the past four decades in prison, exile or organizing the Communist underground. The party is the most zealous, efficiently run political organization in Portugal. In fact, it has been rumored that Moscow does not want the Portuguese Communists to go too far too fast for fear of upsetting detente. Magnetically handsome, Cunhal tries hard to sound reassuring and reasonable. While disapproving of U.S. bases in Portugal on principle, he says: "We don't even talk about them." When asked about the reports that Russia has urged him to go slow, he blandly replied: "I don't have any information about this fact."

On Portugal's headlong pace toward nationalization:

The Portuguese state is not yet in condition to direct the national economy. It does not have sufficient personnel. It does not have the experience, and it does not have the means--it has no money. Without doubt, we will make many errors. But we can say that these measures had to be taken even if we did not want to. One of the fundamental tasks is to keep the Portuguese economy from collapsing and to keep the economy stable. That is why we need the workers to become interested in the process so that they will be willing to make material sacrifices. It will not be easy. For example, if the U.S. were to cut off its commercial relations with Portugal, or if West Germany, France, and England were to create difficulties in our external markets, we would know very bitter moments. But we don't believe they will follow this policy.

On the strength of the Communist Party, which controls much of the press and the labor unions:

There is no Communist power in Portugal. The Communists participate in the government, but they don't have the power. To attribute the power to the Communists is a grave error of judgment. The military movement is autonomous. There is no opportunism in my saying this. It happens to be the truth.

On whether Portugal could upset the balance of power between the U.S. and the Soviet Union:

I do not believe that the U.S. and the Soviet Union have divided the world into two halves and that there has been some kind of agreement between them in which they said, "Here we accept you, and here we do not." The game is much more complicated. We tinnk that it is necessary to find a solution for stability that lessens tension between the two blocs and creates the possibility of cooperation on various levels.

On whether the U.S. would have a right to object to a Communist takeover in Portugal:

There will not be a Communist Portugal in the proximate future. The question could be phrased like this: In the same way that the Soviets did not accept a Czechoslovakia that was escaping from their orbit, how could the U.S. accept that Portugal escapes from its orbit? There is no problem here of a Portugal that escapes from one orbit to go into another orbit. There is no question of a Portugal that makes a move to enter into the Warsaw Pact to be a strategic zone of the Soviet Union against any country. But we are not going to tell our people, "Don't try socialism even if you want it, because those outside will not permit it."

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