Shimon Peres: Hawk in the Wings

One goal of Henry Kissinger's recent Middle East trip, the Secretary allegedly told newsmen, was "to rescue Rabin from Peres." That may not have been exactly a joke. Israel's soft-spoken but highly articulate Defense Minister Shimon Peres, 51, the second most important man in the Israeli Cabinet, has emerged as his country's leading hawk on the crucial question of how to negotiate with the Arabs. He is thus a man that Premier Yitzhak Rabin (not to mention Kissinger) must reckon with. Peres almost defeated Rabin for the premiership last April, and is a plausible candidate to replace him if Rabin should falter.

Indeed, Jerusalem's negotiating position today is pretty much what the Defense Secretary wants it to be. Last fall he singlehandedly scotched Kissinger's suggestion that Israel should unilaterally withdraw from parts of the Sinai as a friendship gesture to Egypt by threatening to resign from the Cabinet, an act that would have brought down Rabin's coalition government. Peres argued that Israel should make territorial concessions only if it got something specific in return, like a pact of nonbelligerency from the Egyptians, and eventually he brought around a majority of his 21 Cabinet colleagues to his way of thinking.

Since he took over the defense ministry from his friend Moshe Dayan less than a year ago, the Polish-born Peres has earned a reputation as a highly effective administrator who has helped rebuild the Israeli army's morale, which was shattered by the losses of the October war. He lives simply, sharing a modest book-filled apartment in Tel Aviv with his wife Sonia and two of their three children (the third is married). In his private hours, Peres, who studied at both Harvard and New York University, writes books about contemporary Israeli problems, as well as poetry that he refuses to publish.

In an interview last week with TIME'S Jerusalem bureau chief Donald Neff, Peres discussed some of the diplomatic problems that Israel faces.

ON NEGOTIATING WITH EGYPT: I think President Sadat described it quite well from his point of view when he said that in principle he is for peace, but added that actually we would have to wait at least ten years before we will have it. His position is for Egypt to buy now and pay later. He would like to get back as much as he can of the Sinai without hampering his relations with the Arab world, Soviet Russia and his own people. This is something on which we can hardly be expected to satisfy him. All Is rael is really demanding is political progress in return for a territorial retreat.

ON ISRAELI NEGOTIATIONS WITH THE P.L.O.: We don't refuse to sit with the Palestine Liberation Organization because they are demanding the West Bank. Let's not forget that Israel is willing to sit with [Jordan's] King Hussein, who is demanding exactly the same thing. The difference is that while Hussein is demanding the West Bank, Yasser Arafat is demanding the whole of Israel as a starting point. He wants the destruction of Israel.

ON ANOTHER MIDDLE EAST WAR:

Last November the chances for war breaking out were 60-40 in favor of war. Now I would say they are only 40-60. What has happened is that Syria has had second thoughts about confronting Israel, perhaps because of the fortification and reorganization of our army and the supplies we have got. They have begun to think that another war with Israel would not be such an easy task.

ON WHAT ISRAEL WANTS FROM THE U.S.: I am not worried about erosion of American support for Israel. What we are asking is to be compensated in a modest way for Russia's support and involvement with the Arabs. In the face of the tremendous supply of Russian equipment to the Middle East, we would like to be able to maintain a proportion of one to every three of their arms. I know we are asking for quite an important sum of money for arms assistance. But this is basically because the cost of arms has gone skyhigh. Ten years ago, we bought 25 Mirages for $25 million to $30 million. Today when we buy 25 F-15s, we have to pay $600 million.

ON HIS PLAN FOR PEACE: My preference would be a) to meet directly with the Egyptians, wherever they wish, and b) to settle on a step-toward-peace policy. So that if Sadat says, "I'm for peace but not now, I must have time," I would say O.K., let's take a step that will allow for time, for preparation. Because then the next step must surely lead to peace. But we can't have an additional step every season. That's a salami tactic; soon Israel would have nothing left to bargain with.

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