Chatting with De Gaulle

"Do you know what death is?" Charles de Gaulle asked his former Minister of Culture, Andre Malraux. "The goddess of sleep," the renowned French novelist replied, adding: "We belong to that category of people who don't care about being killed." That lofty dialogue is part of Les Chenes Qu'On Abat (Fallen Oaks). Malraux's 236-page account of an "interview" between the two men eleven months before De Gaulle's death. Published in Paris last week, the book reveals little of substance that is new about De Gaulle but provides plenty of fresh anecdotes and bans mots.

Monsieur le Gorille. Malraux visited the retired President and his wife Yvonne for a little more than six hours at their home in Colombey-les-Deux-Eglises on Dec. 11, 1969. He did not record the conversation or take notes, but later felt compelled to reconstruct their conversation. Writes Malraux in his preface: "With surprise I found out that we know of no dialogue between a great historical figure and a great artist--painter, writer, musician. We have no better knowledge of Julius II's dialogues with Michelangelo than of their loud quarreling. Nor of those between Alexander the Great and the philosophers. We are astonished that Voltaire did not report his with Frederick the Great."

Malraux cannot be accused of that crime of omission. On one occasion, he relates, Brigitte Bardot arrived at an Elysee Palace reception in a hussar-style pajama suit. De Gaulle murmured to Malraux, "What luck, a soldier!" Then to Bardot he said, "What good fortune, madame. You are in uniform and I am in civilian clothes!" Another tale recounts the time the nearsighted general plunged into a crowd without his glasses. "Bonjour, monsieur le cure," he said to one man, apparently taking him for a priest. "But, mon general, I'm your gorille [bodyguard]." "Alors," said De Gaulle, "bonjour, monsieur le gorille.'''

The conversation at Colombey-les-Deux-Eglises more often resembled two monologues than a dialogue. Some of De Gaulle's more telling ruminations and barbs, as reported by Malraux:--"People want history to resemble them or at least to resemble their dreams. Happily, they sometimes have great dreams."

>"France's last agony . . . stems from her inability to believe in anything whatsoever . . . Communism may permit the Russians to believe in Russia for reasons that put you to sleep standing up, but even so it is irreplaceable."

>"Perhaps politics is the art of putting daydreams in their place. Nothing serious can be done if you bow to daydreams. But how can anything great be done without them?"

>"Men can live without faith more easily than without thought."

>"I had the whole world against me every time I was right."

>"Why shouldn't the Spanish like me? They're very fond of Don Quixote."

>"Actually, you know, my only international rival is Tintin [a comic-strip character]. We are the little fellows who refuse to be had by the big fellows. People don't notice the resemblance because of my stature."

>"I wished to bring France back to life and, to a certain degree, I did. As for the details, God will recognize his own."

>"Stalin told me only one serious thing: 'In the end, only death wins.'

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