Krushchev Debates with U.S. Labor Leaders

CHAIRMAN v. THE WORKERS

"It is in argument," said Nikita Khrushchev to San Francisco Mayor George Christopher, "that the truth is born." In San Francisco last week, the visiting boss of the Communist world tangled fiercely with some of the top bosses of the A.F.L.-C.I.O. in a private dinner debate that gave birth to little truth but made one of the classic give-and-takes of the

Khrushchev trip. Among those ranged against Khrushchev: United Auto Workers' Walter Reuther; International Union of Electrical Workers' James Carey; Papermakers and Paperworkers' Paul Phillips; Maritime Union's Joseph Curran; Oil, Chemical and Atomic Workers' Orie Albert ("Jack") Knight; Brewery Workers' Karl Feller. Excerpts:

K.: The U.S. exploits the wealth of other countries, underdeveloped countries for profits. England and France do the same. We do not exploit any country--we only engage in trade.

Reuther: You exploit the workers of East Germany.

K.: Where did you dream that up?

Reuther: If you don't exploit them, why should 3,000,000 of them cross the border into West Germany?

K.: You are hopelessly sick with capitalist fever.

Reuther: The workers in West Germany are free.

K.: We are free too.

Reuther: Do you have credentials to speak for the workers of the world?

K.: Do you have credentials to poke your nose into East Germany? You have been spoiled by everyone bowing down, by everyone cringing and crawling. I, as a former miner, have to say that I pity you as representing the working class, but your thinking is not of the working class. When Hearst says it, I am not offended. But when a representative of the workers says it, it is different.

Curran: When will workers be able to negotiate agreements in Russia, including the right to strike?

K.: The working class does have the juridical right to strike.*Does the worker have the right to exercise the right to strike? Yes. Have there been strikes since the October Revolution? Yes, I spoke at some of the strike meetings. Are there strikes now? No. Because workers and unions and the government have one thought--because in what other country would the government announce that wages would be raised and the working day reduced without pressure? In capitalist countries they would need to fight for this.

Reuther (as K. waves to silence him): Is he afraid of my questions?

K.: I'm not afraid of the Devil, and you're a man.

Reuther: The chairman himself exposed, in his exposure of Stalin's crimes, the cult and power of an individual. How could the worker in that period get justice if he could not strike or publicly protest?

K.: His trade union.

Reuther: The union is an extension of government, the Soviet government. Does a union ever disagree with the government? Can you give us one single example in which one of your unions ever disagreed with government policy?

K.: Why poke your nose into our business?

Reuther: Freedom is everybody's business. You are always expressing a concern for the workers of Asia. There is a thing called international labor solidarity. When I was in Russia, I was a member of a union, and it was what we would call a company union.

K.: And what we call what you represent--capitalist lackeys.

Knight: Why do you oppose a demoeratic vote for reunification of Germany?

K.: It depends not on me but on the two Germanys.

Knight: Why did the Russians interfere in Hungary?

K.: There was no interference. There was a counterrevolution, thugs and hooligans who received arms from outside and took power in Budapest. And the government asked us for aid, and we gave it, and we're proud of it. We are proud of it as a feat. There would be fascism there if we had not.

Reuther: Was Nagy a fascist? I thought he was a Communist.

K.: Don't mix good things with dirt.

Reuther: You advocate more trade. How come you oppose a free flow of ideas?

K.: As head of the working class, I will protect workers from capitalist propaganda.

Reuther: I have been criticized by the reactionary press as a Moscow agent and by you as a lackey of Wall Street.

K.: We are progressing toward Communism, and you want to strengthen capitalism. You have your point of view; we have ours. They're irreconcilable.

Feller: The Communist Party proclaims itself to be the liberator of the working class; yet we see mass exodus of workers in other countries following the Communist seizure of power. Can you tell us of a single instance where there has been a mass influx of workers from surrounding non-Communist countries into the Communist country?

K.: Is that all? Think it over. Drink your beer. Perhaps that will help you to find the answer to your question.

Reuther (handing K. a schedule of U.S. wage rates): How can he say these people are wage slaves exploited by capitalism, making these kind of wages in America? How can he say that they have nothing to lose but their chains?

K.: We say what we do in retaliation for what you say about us. Take, for example, [A.F.L.-C.I.O. President] Meany's speeches. They sound like Dulles.

Reuther: We have our disagreements, and we recall you had some disagreements with Molotov. However, when we have disagreements, no one is exiled.

*Says Article 6 of the Soviet criminal code: "Action or inaction directed toward undermining the industry, agriculture, transport, monetary system, commerce or the other branches of the national economy . . . shall be punished with a loss of freedom from eight to 15 years with confiscation of property."

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